Gearing your pre-raid Bear Pt. 3 - Post-Raid

I've constructed a normal mode raid gear list that has what I am pretty sure are the BiS items/enchants for a Bear. This list was constructed with the following restrictions:

1) No BoP profession specific items. This is not a "is Profession X better than Profession Y" debate.
2) Randomly enchanted BoEs from Temple of Wind were ignored. These cannot be relied on. In some cases they will definitely be better than the static drops, but are incredibly random.
3) No PvP gear was used. I'll be making a post later on regarding PvP vs PvE gear.
4) Avoid Haste if it all possible. It is a terrible, terrible stat for Bears.
5) The least desirable secondary stat was reforged to Dodge Rating, regardless of what it was.
6) This is for maximum MITIGATION, not THREAT. If you are having threat issues when you start raiding (not likely) you can drop some of the Hit / Expertise reforges.


For the most part gem Agility, unless the socket bonus warrants something else. If you are having survivability issues (ie. not enough health), then switch to primarily gemming Stamina unless the socket bonus warrants it. You will still need 2 Yellow (+Dodge) gems to make your Meta work.


As previously mentioned, reforge the least valuable secondary stat to Dodge Rating.

Item List:

Helm: [Tsanga's Helm]
Reforge: 67 Crit Rating -> 67 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Trash Drop in Bastion of Twilight.

Necklace: [Necklace of Strife]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.

Shoulders: [Poison Protocol Pauldrons]
Reforge: 59 Crit Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: The "Tron" encounter in Blackwing Descent.

Back: [Cloak of Biting Chill]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Maloriak in Blackwing Descent.

Chest: [Sark of the Unwatched]
Reforge: 79 Crit Rating -> 79 Dodge Rating
Obainted: Atramedes in Blackwing Descent.

Wrist: [Parasitic Bands]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.

Hands: [Double Attack Handguards]
Reforge: 59 Expertise Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Chimaeron in Blackwing Descent.

Waist: [Belt of Nefarious Whispers]
Reforge: 73 Hit Rating -> 73 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Leatherworking.

Legs: [Stormrider's Legguards]
Reforge: 75 Critical Rating -> 75 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 2200 Valor Points.

Feet: [Storm Rider's Boots]
Reforge: 59 Haste Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.

Ring: [Hornet Sting Band]
Reforge: 52 Haste Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: 1250 Valor Points.

Ring: [Signet of the Elder Council]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with The Earthen Ring.

Trinket: [Tia's Grace]
Reforge: Nothing
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Siamat in the Lost City of the Tol'Vir.

Trinket: [Fluid Death]
Reforge: 128 Hit Rating -> 128 Dodge Rating.
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Valor Points.

Weapon: [Malevolence]
Reforge: 91 Crit Rating -> 91 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.

Relic: [Relic of Golganneth]
Reforge: 28 Haste Rating -> 28 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 700 Valor Points.

Additional Trinkets that you will want to pick up, should you need them:

Trinket: [Symbiotic Worm]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.

Trinket: [Mirror of Broken Images]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Exalted with Baradin's Wardens.

Trinket: [Vial of Stolen Memories]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.

Trinket: [Essence of the Cyclone]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.


There is very little choice when it comes to gearing your Bear at T11. Since our stat priorities are very clearly defined, there is only 1 piece of gear that fits those priorities per slot. In some cases, there's only even 1 option (Relic, Weapon). Talk about removing "choice" from gearing. Jeezus.

The two trinkets listed in the main set are what I would use for regular tanking. The additional trinkets fill niches that you may find uses for. Additionally, the BiS Heroic Level raid set will be identical to this one except with Heroic versions with the exception of the helm. The helm will be replaced with the T11 helm.


  1. I dunno, I think the t11 shoulders aren't bad compared to the offset shoulders (poison protocol pauldrons). The t11 shoulders have a much better socket bonus (10 agility) from a better socket (blue) with admittedly worse green stats, that are going to be reforged anyway.

    Helms are also... odd. There's 3 i359 pieces. Tsanga's Helm >= t11 helm > Membrane of C'thun far as I can tell. MoC's socket bonus (30 haste) is garbage, from a meh socket (yellow) with crap stats (haste & mastery). t11 has a good socket bonus (30 agi) from a good socket (blue) with meh stats (hit & crit). Tsanga's has good socket bonus (30 agi) from a good socket (blue) with meh stats (crit & mastery).

    It's a shame the 2p t11 bonus is shit for bears..... increased lacerate tick damage? ffs

  2. You're going to want the Tsanga's helm.

    And yes, Haste is really that bad.

  3. I am looking forward to your list, I am trying to figure out what to buy with my first batch of valor points.

  4. Sorry to post an unrelated comment (unrelated to this post). I'm referring to the pre-raid gearing list you've compiled - gloves enchant in particular. Mouseover shows +50mastery enchant, but since you've advocating Agility in abundance, how does +20agility enchant compare to +50mastery? Thanks for all the work you're putting in mate.

  5. This comment has been removed by the author.

  6. Oh, and you've also put +40dodge yellow gem in them to meet the meta requirement of two yellow gems? Wouldn't Polished Ember Topaz work better (20agi/20dodge)?

  7. @Thrinder:

    Yes, Agi/Dodge is better. I had forgotten of its existence and have not yet updated the list. My apologies.

    50 Mastery is only slightly better than 20 Agility for a glove enchant (or anything really). The difference is minimal, but it does exist.

  8. I know that you have been keeping an updated sheet with the changes to druid damage on it, even if it doesn't match the tooltips, so i decided to ask you instead of trying to figure it out myself.

    The new changes to the abilities that are listed on mmo-champion, are those actual incoming changes or simply changes to the tooltips. I am inclined to say that they are only the redo's on the tooltips because there is a reduction in swipe damage there and i dont really see them needing to nerf swipe any more than they already have but I thought i would check with you since you are more open (better) to doing math for that stuff than I am.

    Im not really worried since our threat is stupid right now but i would just like to know if i should be expecting my damage to fall.

  9. Anything that says "17%" are the tooltip changes that I've been bitching about for weeks now.

    The 20% stuff to Mangle, Maul, Lacerate and Pulverize I think are new, but I can't say for sure yet. I'll be able to test them out on the PTR this weekend.

  10. When do you think will your post-raid bis list come online? Can't wait for it and I am waiting to make my decisions, based on yours.

    Best regards.

  11. Haha, I'm just waiting for Fasc to update his spreadsheet with out latest Vegeance information (/rage at Blizzard for false advertising). I'd rather post a correct list once than post an incorrect list and have to fix it later :)

  12. ashalia

    If you go onto wowhead and browse items.

    set your filters to be:

    then go down to the Stat Weight box and use the Druid-Feral (Tank) weight box. Then hit show details and delete the stam-because that is normalized based on ilevel, and I delete the armor and bonus armor too because they tend to greatly skew the outputs on some things.

    This will give you a pretty good outline to folow until the spreadsheet gets updated and he does his list for you. Some pieces dont rank where they should but if you take the orders along with the comments here and katarns posts you should be pretty close to being right. you should stay away from the PvP pieces as any raid pieces will totally trump the PvP gear (with the exception of the relic which is very good relatively and is worth looking into getting as you only need to win 3 arena matches to get).

  13. Thank you both. ;)

    I made my own list some days before but I just wanted to make no mistakes by buying wrong things or roll on stuff which an other person could have needed more.

    But as you already said, there are not many choices anymore.

    Now i can be sure that the T11 Legs are a good buy. :D

    Thanks, bye.

  14. I kinda said this in my last post but there is actually the option of the PvP relic for us because haste is...not useless, but useless.

    The vicious gladiator's relic of triumph is purchasable with 700 conquest points and is obtainable after winning 3 arena matches in 2v2, which we are very strong in right now because of our damage. You should be raid ready so your gear should be good, so just get another guy from your guild and go win 3 arena matches.

    The stat difference is (I think) negligable compared to the PvE relic as you gain:

    161.97489 health
    20.2125 AP
    0.0415482 dodge%

    at the cost of 0.1223993 crit% and 44 haste(like 0.33% so not really noticeable), with the PvP relic equipped, when fully raid buffed.

    It is basically a choice of whether you want a bit more health with the PvP relic or a bit more crit with the PvE relic, but the choice leans clearly in favor of the PvP relic when you consider that you have 2 other items to buy from the vendor with your Valor Points and the PvP trinket takes about 20-40 min to get depending on your skill and the PvP population at the time, whereas 700 Valor points takes much longer to get.

    Plus the ilevel is higher so you can flaunt your e-peen over your guild members a little more than usual when they are comparing average ilevel.

  15. Looking back that wasnt as clear as i wanted.

    With the PvP relic on you gain the Health/AP/Dodge and lose the Crit/Haste

  16. The PvP Relic is better. I just didn't include PvP gear in here because I'm doing a post later on PvP vs PvE.

  17. I just thought it was a good thing to say so people didn't go spending their valor points on something that is not really better than another option that is much easier to get.

  18. Easier is kinda subjective. Some people are just terrible at PvP. And after 4.0.6, I wouldn't be surprised if people stayed away from it entirely.

  19. Easier may not be the right word but I am pretty sure that if you and a partner were to do some 2's for the amount of time it takes for the average heroic you would most likely be able to brute force your way to 3 arena wins whereas getting 700 valor points will take you 10 days of heroics or possibly around 5 days if you are raiding well. Im not fantastic at PvP but if you are geared enough to start raiding you should be able to go in with a healer and stay in bear form and slowly kill your enemy 3 times pretty easy

  20. with the incoming new Alchemy trinket (+301 Agi, 194 crit), would you buy the Fluid Death? or pairing the Agi + Stam alchemy trinkets would be ok?
    I'm still pretty much stuck on raiding, we are "farming" only 3 raid bosses (Magmaw, Omnitron and 4winds), so it's not like I'm getting VP that fast...
    right now, I'm using alche trinket+left eye of rajh (that gives me a grand total of 4 exp, I dont like 0), and in my pack are waiting Leaden Dispair and the Crab something
    oh, and already have the t11 pants

    buy the trinket? something else? or just use it for offspec (that I'm using quite a bit)


  21. Fluid death is better then Heroic Tia's Grace? Right now I'm using Leaden and Tia's. The agi increase on fluid death is nice, but wasn't sure if it was made up for losing all that mastery for hit/dodge.

  22. Hi,

    Thanks for the great work on this blog.

    I was just wondering about the list in particular the belt.

    Is the dispersing belt from the elementium monstrosity not better than the belt of nefarious whispers?

    Or am I missing something?


  23. "buy the trinket? something else? or just use it for offspec"

    Get the relic if you don't want to Arena for the Vicious one. But buy the Trinket eventually (you'll probably want 2, 1 reforged and 1 not).

    "Fluid death is better then Heroic Tia's Grace? Right now I'm using Leaden and Tia's. The agi increase on fluid death is nice, but wasn't sure if it was made up for losing all that mastery for hit/dodge."

    It is. Agility is just that amazing.

    "Is the dispersing belt from the elementium monstrosity not better than the belt of nefarious whispers?"

    Hit > Haste.
    Mastery > Crit.

    Also, it's supposed to be getting a socket (in theory) as well.

  24. Thanks so much for the reply! I forgot to thank you in the previous post asking about Tia's. Been using your blog and comments in the bear sticky and they've been really useful.

  25. I'm the one with the VP Trinket question, I have the Vicious relic, and somehow I'm hitcapped (without reforging for it) for interrupt duty, Assassin's Chestplate is the reason i guess...
    Can I ask you an example for [Mirror of Broken Images] use? Feud? Maloriak's red phase?

    damn... too many trinkets, and I can buy them all (VP/Baradin's)

    sorry I'm so annoying :S

    Thank you for the blog, help and the patience with people like me

  26. "Can I ask you an example for [Mirror of Broken Images] use? Feud? Maloriak's red phase?"

    Maloriak's Red phase is an excellent example. Blue if you're off-tanking (which you shouldn't be). Good for Tron if you get targetted by Magma's bursty thing. Al'Akir for Cyclones and/or Electrocute.

    I'd imagine it would also be good for Feud. Unfortunately our DPS are so terrible that we haven't gotten to Chim yet.

  27. Ninja-Edit on the list. Turns out Tia's is actually better than Essence.

  28. But if i keep a heroic trinket how am i going to brag about the size of avg ilevel?

    /sarcasm off

    definitely just saw that change so thats good that it didnt drop last week, cause i totally would have spent my DKP's on it

  29. Why did you opt to not reforge the mastery on Tia's to dodge when you stated that you were reforging the weaker stats to dodge?

  30. I hope to be corrected if i am wrong but this is why.

    Mastery is our highest priority of any stat in the game right. The issue comes from the fact that in almost every case, your item should already have mastery on it, meaning you cant reforge to mastery. That being said, dodge has a direct impact on how good mastery is. What dodge does is increase the uptime of our savage defense because every time you dodge a hit you are in essence gaining one more mitigated hit. Think of mastery as block value (increased potency)and dodge as block rating(increased uptime). Now as to why the reforges to dodge when there is no mastery on a piece of gear? someone else will have to field that one.

  31. Eh, it's a personal choice. You gain a bit of SD uptime and avoidance while trading SD effectiveness.

    I personally just avoid reforging away from Mastery.

  32. How would you rank the alchemist trink or the darkmoon agi card in relation to your trinket selection? I made the +sta one as soon as I was able, and the +agi one after patch and I like the +sta better. Giving up 7k hp for 1% dodge didn't make sense. The agi darkmoon card seems like a good selection, but not sure its better than my alchemist stone.

  33. I have extra VP, don't know if I should buy something else...
    Have Epic Helm, chest (Assassins), Wrist, Gloves (rep), t11 Legs, Nefarious, Elder Council, Conductor's Band and Fluid
    We are doing all the bosses (but Chim and Atramedes) as "farm" on Normal... is it worth buying anything with VP?

  34. What about the Omnotron Ring with Hit and Crit ?

  35. @Siofra: So sorry I didn't respond sooner. I don't get emails when comments are posted, and I rarely check back this far.

    DMC: Agility (because I can't remember its name) is inferior to practically every other Agility trinket out there because its proc is useless for mitigation. While still superior to non-Agi trinkets, there are better and much easier choices to come by.


    Hornet Sting Band.

    @Anon#2: It's worse than the Rep and VP rings, but better than 346 Agi rings.

  36. For heroic raiding, BiS same items as above, 372 versions? Teir helm in place of Tsanga's? What to use for trinkets?

  37. Heroic raiding will be 4 pc tier not 2, prob gloves or shoulders offset as they'll be the first aquired. You'll prob get chest 372tier before other option available. Heroic halfus and chimmy usually on farm before guilds get other content.
    Not sure why he lists some raid gear but some he doesn't, conclave has crit/mastery ring as an option, as well as belt. Random drops/suffixes from small loot table is no different from random small chance of loot from other bosses loot table.

    Dodge > mastery, you can reforge Tia's and mirror as well.