Hey kids,
I finally finished out v2.0 of my threat spreadsheet, which is up-to-date with 4.0.6a. I calc'ed out mangle (within a 0.0005% variance - which is good enough for me) and added it to the sheet.
While doing so, I found another bug.
The base damage of Mangle is not multiplied by MSS. It's nothing game breaking or anything, but I mean, come on. It can't be that hard to miss. That's just fucking pathetic.
/rage
Here's the sheet yo.
Showing posts with label Bear. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Bear. Show all posts
2/10/11
Tank Threat Part 1 - Scaling
Tanks serve a really simple function in principle, but a really wierd one in practice.
The principle is to control. Control damage output, where it is directed to, and positioning. The implementation varies from class to class. However there are two basic principles they all share:
1) Damage intake reduction. They should all take fairly similar amounts of damage, although the methods by which this is controlled may vary.
2) Threat output. All tanks should be able to output enough threat to keep the target focussed on them. This of course has to scale upwards to keep pace with DPS output from other classes.
I'm not going to examine the first one, I'll leave that to others. I'm going to focus on #2 - Threat Output.
The first big thing about Threat Output is that it needs to be fun. Now while fun is a subjective term, the universal truth of RPGs is that people like big numbers. Big numbers are awesome.
Now you could just say "Well then make tanks do 0 damage, and just generate threat numbers." That might be enough for some people, but the universal truth about MMOs is that people like competition. They need some way of comparing themselves to others. In WoW specifically this comes down to Damage, and Healing.
This means that just dealing Threat numbers isn't enough. Tanks need to do damage as well. However problems start arising when you need to be able to scale the Damage (and therefore threat) as content progresses along tiers. How do you pick a method to do this that allows your character to grow and progress, but doesn't hamper you or your raid's ability to clear content?
Blizzard has chosen to use something called "Vengeance". This increases a Tank's attack power by a 5% of incoming damage, up to a maximum of 10% of your Base Health + Buffed Stamina. Unfortunately there are inherent problems with this method.
The first and most obvious is that it doesn't scale backwards (or downwards I guess) as well as DPS does. By this I mean a DPS class will continue to do high amounts of DPS at lower tiers of content (be they raids or 5mans), but a Tank will not be able to do as much relative Threat. Of course you could always follow the "tank off your pants" method to solve this problem, but that shouldn't be necesarry. A tank should be able to generate sufficient amounts of threat to hold off equally geared DPS, regardless of the level of content they are doing.
The second is that any Tank that has mitigation that scales off of AP, cannot have their mitigation and threat independantly balanced while Vengeance exists. Increasing mitigation will decrease opening levels of threat, but increasing opening levels of threat to compensate for this makes the Tank completely overpowered at high levels of Vengeance.
I'm speaking of course, of Druids.
If we were to do away with Vengeance, we would have to find some other method of scaling Threat output with gear progression. So what does each Tank have in common with relatively similar values?
- Item Level
- Health
- Mastery
- Incoming Damage
- Outgoing Damage
Item Level is a pretty hokey concept, and I'd rather it remain simply a descriptor rather than an actual gameplay mechanic.
Mastery I like as a concept, but you could only have it increase the amount of threat generated, not damage. This seems to go against the concept of "fun".
We've already tried a combination of Health + Incoming damage, and look where that got us.
But what about Outgoing damage? It's much more constant than incoming damage, making it a much more reliable scalar for both future and past content. But how do you determine how it caps? Well, why not use the existing Vengeance formula?
That means 5% of your outgoing damage is added to your AP, with a maximum cap of 10% of your base health + your Stamina. Thia makes Vengeance:
1) Much more of an "active" scalar than a gear/encounter dependant one.
2) It becomes much more constant and reliable for threat generation. This makes it much easier to balance around.
3) Tank switches become less of an issue since both should be building up equal amounts.
4) Avoidance strings become a good thing and don't cause your threat to suffer.
5) It scales downward infinitely better than the current model.
The only problem is that it becomes more of a constant in PvP. The solution? Disable it when PvP flagged.
And no, I don't give a rat's ass if you want Tank-specs to be viable in PvP.
I'll be making a post later on about what could be done to balance or improve Druid threat specifically.
The principle is to control. Control damage output, where it is directed to, and positioning. The implementation varies from class to class. However there are two basic principles they all share:
1) Damage intake reduction. They should all take fairly similar amounts of damage, although the methods by which this is controlled may vary.
2) Threat output. All tanks should be able to output enough threat to keep the target focussed on them. This of course has to scale upwards to keep pace with DPS output from other classes.
I'm not going to examine the first one, I'll leave that to others. I'm going to focus on #2 - Threat Output.
The first big thing about Threat Output is that it needs to be fun. Now while fun is a subjective term, the universal truth of RPGs is that people like big numbers. Big numbers are awesome.
Now you could just say "Well then make tanks do 0 damage, and just generate threat numbers." That might be enough for some people, but the universal truth about MMOs is that people like competition. They need some way of comparing themselves to others. In WoW specifically this comes down to Damage, and Healing.
This means that just dealing Threat numbers isn't enough. Tanks need to do damage as well. However problems start arising when you need to be able to scale the Damage (and therefore threat) as content progresses along tiers. How do you pick a method to do this that allows your character to grow and progress, but doesn't hamper you or your raid's ability to clear content?
Blizzard has chosen to use something called "Vengeance". This increases a Tank's attack power by a 5% of incoming damage, up to a maximum of 10% of your Base Health + Buffed Stamina. Unfortunately there are inherent problems with this method.
The first and most obvious is that it doesn't scale backwards (or downwards I guess) as well as DPS does. By this I mean a DPS class will continue to do high amounts of DPS at lower tiers of content (be they raids or 5mans), but a Tank will not be able to do as much relative Threat. Of course you could always follow the "tank off your pants" method to solve this problem, but that shouldn't be necesarry. A tank should be able to generate sufficient amounts of threat to hold off equally geared DPS, regardless of the level of content they are doing.
The second is that any Tank that has mitigation that scales off of AP, cannot have their mitigation and threat independantly balanced while Vengeance exists. Increasing mitigation will decrease opening levels of threat, but increasing opening levels of threat to compensate for this makes the Tank completely overpowered at high levels of Vengeance.
I'm speaking of course, of Druids.
If we were to do away with Vengeance, we would have to find some other method of scaling Threat output with gear progression. So what does each Tank have in common with relatively similar values?
- Item Level
- Health
- Mastery
- Incoming Damage
- Outgoing Damage
Item Level is a pretty hokey concept, and I'd rather it remain simply a descriptor rather than an actual gameplay mechanic.
Mastery I like as a concept, but you could only have it increase the amount of threat generated, not damage. This seems to go against the concept of "fun".
We've already tried a combination of Health + Incoming damage, and look where that got us.
But what about Outgoing damage? It's much more constant than incoming damage, making it a much more reliable scalar for both future and past content. But how do you determine how it caps? Well, why not use the existing Vengeance formula?
That means 5% of your outgoing damage is added to your AP, with a maximum cap of 10% of your base health + your Stamina. Thia makes Vengeance:
1) Much more of an "active" scalar than a gear/encounter dependant one.
2) It becomes much more constant and reliable for threat generation. This makes it much easier to balance around.
3) Tank switches become less of an issue since both should be building up equal amounts.
4) Avoidance strings become a good thing and don't cause your threat to suffer.
5) It scales downward infinitely better than the current model.
The only problem is that it becomes more of a constant in PvP. The solution? Disable it when PvP flagged.
And no, I don't give a rat's ass if you want Tank-specs to be viable in PvP.
I'll be making a post later on about what could be done to balance or improve Druid threat specifically.
1/16/11
Arielle's Threat Spreadsheet - V1.1
I updated my spreadsheet with more accurate Live values, mostly at Reesi's behest. I was slacking >.>
Most of my calculations were accurate within a very, very tiny variance (less than 1%). However Thrash is just completely messed up.
I've tried every way I can think of to use Blizzard's datamined Tooltip information, and I just can't get correct values when I use it. Not even close. It doesn't make any sense.
If anyone has any insight they'd like to share with me I'm all ears.
I've also added Pulverize damage with 3 different weapons (Heroic Seliza's, Malevolence, and Herioc Malevolence). I was going to add Mangle, but I had a small damage variance that I just couldn't account for. Maybe I'll try and figure it out again later, but eh. Part of me feels like it's counting the bonus from MSS twice. Maybe I'll respec later to test that theory.
Anyways, here is the sheet.
Most of my calculations were accurate within a very, very tiny variance (less than 1%). However Thrash is just completely messed up.
I've tried every way I can think of to use Blizzard's datamined Tooltip information, and I just can't get correct values when I use it. Not even close. It doesn't make any sense.
If anyone has any insight they'd like to share with me I'm all ears.
I've also added Pulverize damage with 3 different weapons (Heroic Seliza's, Malevolence, and Herioc Malevolence). I was going to add Mangle, but I had a small damage variance that I just couldn't account for. Maybe I'll try and figure it out again later, but eh. Part of me feels like it's counting the bonus from MSS twice. Maybe I'll respec later to test that theory.
Anyways, here is the sheet.
12/21/10
Gearing your pre-raid Bear Pt. 3 - Post-Raid
I've constructed a normal mode raid gear list that has what I am pretty sure are the BiS items/enchants for a Bear. This list was constructed with the following restrictions:
1) No BoP profession specific items. This is not a "is Profession X better than Profession Y" debate.
2) Randomly enchanted BoEs from Temple of Wind were ignored. These cannot be relied on. In some cases they will definitely be better than the static drops, but are incredibly random.
3) No PvP gear was used. I'll be making a post later on regarding PvP vs PvE gear.
4) Avoid Haste if it all possible. It is a terrible, terrible stat for Bears.
5) The least desirable secondary stat was reforged to Dodge Rating, regardless of what it was.
6) This is for maximum MITIGATION, not THREAT. If you are having threat issues when you start raiding (not likely) you can drop some of the Hit / Expertise reforges.
Gemming:
For the most part gem Agility, unless the socket bonus warrants something else. If you are having survivability issues (ie. not enough health), then switch to primarily gemming Stamina unless the socket bonus warrants it. You will still need 2 Yellow (+Dodge) gems to make your Meta work.
Reforging:
As previously mentioned, reforge the least valuable secondary stat to Dodge Rating.
Item List:
Helm: [Tsanga's Helm]
Reforge: 67 Crit Rating -> 67 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Trash Drop in Bastion of Twilight.
Necklace: [Necklace of Strife]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.
Shoulders: [Poison Protocol Pauldrons]
Reforge: 59 Crit Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: The "Tron" encounter in Blackwing Descent.
Back: [Cloak of Biting Chill]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Maloriak in Blackwing Descent.
Chest: [Sark of the Unwatched]
Reforge: 79 Crit Rating -> 79 Dodge Rating
Obainted: Atramedes in Blackwing Descent.
Wrist: [Parasitic Bands]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.
Hands: [Double Attack Handguards]
Reforge: 59 Expertise Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Chimaeron in Blackwing Descent.
Waist: [Belt of Nefarious Whispers]
Reforge: 73 Hit Rating -> 73 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Leatherworking.
Legs: [Stormrider's Legguards]
Reforge: 75 Critical Rating -> 75 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 2200 Valor Points.
Feet: [Storm Rider's Boots]
Reforge: 59 Haste Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Ring: [Hornet Sting Band]
Reforge: 52 Haste Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: 1250 Valor Points.
Ring: [Signet of the Elder Council]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with The Earthen Ring.
Trinket: [Tia's Grace]
Reforge: Nothing
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Siamat in the Lost City of the Tol'Vir.
Trinket: [Fluid Death]
Reforge: 128 Hit Rating -> 128 Dodge Rating.
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Valor Points.
Weapon: [Malevolence]
Reforge: 91 Crit Rating -> 91 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Relic: [Relic of Golganneth]
Reforge: 28 Haste Rating -> 28 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 700 Valor Points.
Additional Trinkets that you will want to pick up, should you need them:
Trinket: [Symbiotic Worm]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.
Trinket: [Mirror of Broken Images]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Exalted with Baradin's Wardens.
Trinket: [Vial of Stolen Memories]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.
Trinket: [Essence of the Cyclone]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Notes:
There is very little choice when it comes to gearing your Bear at T11. Since our stat priorities are very clearly defined, there is only 1 piece of gear that fits those priorities per slot. In some cases, there's only even 1 option (Relic, Weapon). Talk about removing "choice" from gearing. Jeezus.
The two trinkets listed in the main set are what I would use for regular tanking. The additional trinkets fill niches that you may find uses for. Additionally, the BiS Heroic Level raid set will be identical to this one except with Heroic versions with the exception of the helm. The helm will be replaced with the T11 helm.
1) No BoP profession specific items. This is not a "is Profession X better than Profession Y" debate.
2) Randomly enchanted BoEs from Temple of Wind were ignored. These cannot be relied on. In some cases they will definitely be better than the static drops, but are incredibly random.
3) No PvP gear was used. I'll be making a post later on regarding PvP vs PvE gear.
4) Avoid Haste if it all possible. It is a terrible, terrible stat for Bears.
5) The least desirable secondary stat was reforged to Dodge Rating, regardless of what it was.
6) This is for maximum MITIGATION, not THREAT. If you are having threat issues when you start raiding (not likely) you can drop some of the Hit / Expertise reforges.
Gemming:
For the most part gem Agility, unless the socket bonus warrants something else. If you are having survivability issues (ie. not enough health), then switch to primarily gemming Stamina unless the socket bonus warrants it. You will still need 2 Yellow (+Dodge) gems to make your Meta work.
Reforging:
As previously mentioned, reforge the least valuable secondary stat to Dodge Rating.
Item List:
Helm: [Tsanga's Helm]
Reforge: 67 Crit Rating -> 67 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Trash Drop in Bastion of Twilight.
Necklace: [Necklace of Strife]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.
Shoulders: [Poison Protocol Pauldrons]
Reforge: 59 Crit Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: The "Tron" encounter in Blackwing Descent.
Back: [Cloak of Biting Chill]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Maloriak in Blackwing Descent.
Chest: [Sark of the Unwatched]
Reforge: 79 Crit Rating -> 79 Dodge Rating
Obainted: Atramedes in Blackwing Descent.
Wrist: [Parasitic Bands]
Reforge: 50 Crit Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.
Hands: [Double Attack Handguards]
Reforge: 59 Expertise Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Chimaeron in Blackwing Descent.
Waist: [Belt of Nefarious Whispers]
Reforge: 73 Hit Rating -> 73 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Leatherworking.
Legs: [Stormrider's Legguards]
Reforge: 75 Critical Rating -> 75 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 2200 Valor Points.
Feet: [Storm Rider's Boots]
Reforge: 59 Haste Rating -> 59 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Ring: [Hornet Sting Band]
Reforge: 52 Haste Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: 1250 Valor Points.
Ring: [Signet of the Elder Council]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with The Earthen Ring.
Trinket: [Tia's Grace]
Reforge: Nothing
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Siamat in the Lost City of the Tol'Vir.
Trinket: [Fluid Death]
Reforge: 128 Hit Rating -> 128 Dodge Rating.
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Valor Points.
Weapon: [Malevolence]
Reforge: 91 Crit Rating -> 91 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Relic: [Relic of Golganneth]
Reforge: 28 Haste Rating -> 28 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 700 Valor Points.
Additional Trinkets that you will want to pick up, should you need them:
Trinket: [Symbiotic Worm]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Magmaw in Blackwing Descent.
Trinket: [Mirror of Broken Images]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Exalted with Baradin's Wardens.
Trinket: [Vial of Stolen Memories]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Valiona in Bastion of Twilight.
Trinket: [Essence of the Cyclone]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Halfus Wyrmbreaker in Bastion of Twilight.
Notes:
There is very little choice when it comes to gearing your Bear at T11. Since our stat priorities are very clearly defined, there is only 1 piece of gear that fits those priorities per slot. In some cases, there's only even 1 option (Relic, Weapon). Talk about removing "choice" from gearing. Jeezus.
The two trinkets listed in the main set are what I would use for regular tanking. The additional trinkets fill niches that you may find uses for. Additionally, the BiS Heroic Level raid set will be identical to this one except with Heroic versions with the exception of the helm. The helm will be replaced with the T11 helm.
Team Waffle Podcast - Ep 1
Hey y'all,
I wanted to let you know that I finally finished the post-production Team Waffle's first podcast episode.
Get it here.
I wanted to let you know that I finally finished the post-production Team Waffle's first podcast episode.
Get it here.
12/14/10
Arielle's Spreadsheet V1.0
So I did a spreadsheet. It shows the AP coeffecients for our threat abilities, except Mangle. I chose to ignore Mangle since it is far, far, far and away our best Threat ability, so modelling it is kind of pointless.
So what I've found so far while doing this, after hours of math:
1) Thrash does not currently consume Omen of Clarity procs. This has to be a bug.
2) The bleed portion of Thrash is affected by Armor. This is contrary to the very definition of a bleed. This has to also be a bug.
3) Pulverize scales like crap. Although since its only purpose is to grant 9% Crit, that doesn't really matter.
4) There's a breakpoint around 9500 AP where Thrash becomes better than Lacereate for Threat. However since Lacerate will trump Thrash for mitigation this won't really matter until possibly T13 or T14.
5) There is also a breakpoint around 20,000 AP where FFF becomes better than Lacerate for threat. However again since Lacerate is better for Mitigation, and that this also depends on the Spell Damage debuff existing, it doesn't have any practical application.
6) All of the Bear damage ability tooltips are incorrect, except FFF.
You can find the spreadsheet here. Let me know if you find anything or have any questions.
So what I've found so far while doing this, after hours of math:
1) Thrash does not currently consume Omen of Clarity procs. This has to be a bug.
2) The bleed portion of Thrash is affected by Armor. This is contrary to the very definition of a bleed. This has to also be a bug.
3) Pulverize scales like crap. Although since its only purpose is to grant 9% Crit, that doesn't really matter.
4) There's a breakpoint around 9500 AP where Thrash becomes better than Lacereate for Threat. However since Lacerate will trump Thrash for mitigation this won't really matter until possibly T13 or T14.
5) There is also a breakpoint around 20,000 AP where FFF becomes better than Lacerate for threat. However again since Lacerate is better for Mitigation, and that this also depends on the Spell Damage debuff existing, it doesn't have any practical application.
6) All of the Bear damage ability tooltips are incorrect, except FFF.
You can find the spreadsheet here. Let me know if you find anything or have any questions.
12/5/10
Gearing your pre-raid Bear Pt 2: Items
I've constructed a pre-raid gear list that has what I am pretty sure are the BiS items/enchants for a Bear. This list was constructed with the following restrictions:
1) No BoP profession specific items. This is not a "is Profession X better than Profession Y" debate.
2) No crafted items that require BoP materials. This means nothing that needs Chaos Orbs.
3) No enchants that need Maelstrom Crystals. I'm pretty sure they are not reliably obtainable outside of raiding, and since this is a pre-raid gearset, well, you see where I'm going with this.
4) Avoid Haste if it all possible. It is a terrible, terrible stat for Bears.
5) The least desirable secondary stat was reforged to Dodge Rating, regardless of what it was.
6) This is for maximum MITIGATION, not THREAT. If you are having threat issues when you start raiding (not likely) you can drop some of the Hit / Expertise reforges.
Gemming:
For the most part gem Agility, unless the socket bonus warrants something else. If you are having survivability issues (ie. not enough health), then switch to primarily gemming Stamina unless the socket bonus warrants it. You will still need 2 Yellow (+Dodge) gems to make your Meta work.
Reforging:
As previously mentioned, reforge the least valuable secondary stat to Dodge Rating.
Item List:
Helm: [Helm of Numberless Shadows]
Reforge: 72 Hit Rating -> 72 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from High Priestess Azil in Stonecore.
Necklace: [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Ozruk in Stonecore.
Shoulders: [Embrace of the Night]
Reforge: 52 Hit Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Justice Points.
Back: [Cloak of Thredd]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Helix Gearbreaker in Deadmines.
Chest: [Vest of Misshapen Hides]
Reforge: 64 Crit Rating -> 64 Dodge Rating
Obainted: Heroic Dungeon drop from Erudax in Grim Batol.
Wrist: [Double Dealing Bracers]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Lord Walden in Shadowfang Keep.
Hands: [Stormbolt Gloves]
Reforge: 67 Haste Rating -> 67 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with Wildhammer Clan.
Waist: [Sash of Musing]
Reforge: 52 Expertise Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Justice Points.
Legs: [Leggings of the Burrowing Mole]
Reforge: 64 Expertise Rating -> 64 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 2200 Justice Points.
Feet: [Boots of the Predator]
Reforge: 52 Hit Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Baron Ashbury in Shadowfang Keep.
Ring: [Elementium Destroyer's Ring]
Reforge: 35 Crit Rating -> 35 Dodge Rating
Obtained: BoE from Jewelcrafting.
Ring: [Signet of the Elder Council]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with The Earthen Ring.
Trinket: [Leaden Despair]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from High Priestess Azil in Stonecore.
Trinket: [Tia's Grace]
Reforge: Nothing
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Siamat in the Lost City of the Tol'Vir.
Weapon: [Seliza's Spear]
Reforge: 54 Crit Rating -> 54 Dodge Rating
Obatined: Heroic Dungeon drop from General Husam in the Lost City of the Tol'vir.
Relic: [Sandshift Relic]
Reforge: 25 Hit Rating -> 25 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Ascendant Lord Obsidious in Blackrock Caverns.
1) No BoP profession specific items. This is not a "is Profession X better than Profession Y" debate.
2) No crafted items that require BoP materials. This means nothing that needs Chaos Orbs.
3) No enchants that need Maelstrom Crystals. I'm pretty sure they are not reliably obtainable outside of raiding, and since this is a pre-raid gearset, well, you see where I'm going with this.
4) Avoid Haste if it all possible. It is a terrible, terrible stat for Bears.
5) The least desirable secondary stat was reforged to Dodge Rating, regardless of what it was.
6) This is for maximum MITIGATION, not THREAT. If you are having threat issues when you start raiding (not likely) you can drop some of the Hit / Expertise reforges.
Gemming:
For the most part gem Agility, unless the socket bonus warrants something else. If you are having survivability issues (ie. not enough health), then switch to primarily gemming Stamina unless the socket bonus warrants it. You will still need 2 Yellow (+Dodge) gems to make your Meta work.
Reforging:
As previously mentioned, reforge the least valuable secondary stat to Dodge Rating.
Item List:
Helm: [Helm of Numberless Shadows]
Reforge: 72 Hit Rating -> 72 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from High Priestess Azil in Stonecore.
Necklace: [Pendant of the Lightless Grotto]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Ozruk in Stonecore.
Shoulders: [Embrace of the Night]
Reforge: 52 Hit Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Justice Points.
Back: [Cloak of Thredd]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Helix Gearbreaker in Deadmines.
Chest: [Vest of Misshapen Hides]
Reforge: 64 Crit Rating -> 64 Dodge Rating
Obainted: Heroic Dungeon drop from Erudax in Grim Batol.
Wrist: [Double Dealing Bracers]
Reforge: 44 Crit Rating -> 44 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Lord Walden in Shadowfang Keep.
Hands: [Stormbolt Gloves]
Reforge: 67 Haste Rating -> 67 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with Wildhammer Clan.
Waist: [Sash of Musing]
Reforge: 52 Expertise Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 1650 Justice Points.
Legs: [Leggings of the Burrowing Mole]
Reforge: 64 Expertise Rating -> 64 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Purchasable with 2200 Justice Points.
Feet: [Boots of the Predator]
Reforge: 52 Hit Rating -> 52 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Baron Ashbury in Shadowfang Keep.
Ring: [Elementium Destroyer's Ring]
Reforge: 35 Crit Rating -> 35 Dodge Rating
Obtained: BoE from Jewelcrafting.
Ring: [Signet of the Elder Council]
Reforge: 50 Haste Rating -> 50 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Exalted Reputation with The Earthen Ring.
Trinket: [Leaden Despair]
Reforge: Nothing.
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from High Priestess Azil in Stonecore.
Trinket: [Tia's Grace]
Reforge: Nothing
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Siamat in the Lost City of the Tol'Vir.
Weapon: [Seliza's Spear]
Reforge: 54 Crit Rating -> 54 Dodge Rating
Obatined: Heroic Dungeon drop from General Husam in the Lost City of the Tol'vir.
Relic: [Sandshift Relic]
Reforge: 25 Hit Rating -> 25 Dodge Rating
Obtained: Heroic Dungeon drop from Ascendant Lord Obsidious in Blackrock Caverns.
Gearing your pre-raid Bear Pt 1: Stats
There are a number of pre-raid gearing guides floating around out there. Some of them (like Ri's) are good. Some of the other ones (like people assuming parry-haste still exists) are not.
I've put together a gear guide for a "pre-raid" bear using Fasc's spreadsheet. You may not choose to believe me, but I've tried pretty much every viable combination including gems. I do not however claim it is perfect, and there may have been something I have overlooked. If you think something doesn't fit please do not hesitate to contact me and let me know (see the right hand side for how).
I've split this into two parts. Part 1 will discuss the various stats, what they do, and their relative values. Part 2 will have the actual gear list. So here weeee goooooooo!
Stats:
Agility:
Agility is the "bread n butter" stat of any Feral Druid, be they Cat or Bear. It increases Attack Power (AP), Critical Strike Chance, and Dodge %. The amount of Agility is mostly tied to the iLvL (Item Level) and quality (Uncommon / Rare / Epic) of the gear. There can be some variation but there usually isn't much. At entry-level raiding Agility is an amazing stat because it has such a huge impact on Savage Defense uptime and effectiveness. You will find yourself mostly gemming Agility in your gear, unless the socket bonus warrants otherwise. Actual stats below:
1 Agi = 2.5 AP (2.625 AP) [2.8875 AP]
1 Agi = 0.0030783% Crit (0.0032323%)
324.85 Agi = 1% Crit
1 Agi = 0.0041054% Dodge (0.0043106%)
243.58 Agi = 1% Dodge
Strength:
Strength is now the bastard step-sibling of Agility for a Feral Druid. It grants Attack Power but nothing else. In the past it actually granted more AP per point than Agility, but no longer. You will only find it on cross-class tanking accessories. However those accessories are generally sub-par when compared to an Agility-based accessory of the same level due to how awesome Agility is. For the most part avoid it like the plague unless the secondary stats on the item warrant it.
1 Str = 2.5 AP (2.625 AP) [2.8875 AP]
Stamina:
Stamina increases your health. It also has a side-effect of increasing the amount of Attack Power granted via Vengeance. So in a roundabout way it is a mitigation stat. However it is not as effective as actual mitigation stats like Mastery. Stamina is directly linked to the iLvL and quality of the item.
1 Sta = 17.1402 Health (17.99721)
Critical Strike Rating:
Critical Strike Rating increases the chance that you will critically hit an enemy. This makes it a valuable threat and mitigation stat for Bears as crits proc Savage Defense. It is generally the second most important secondary mitigation stat behind Mastery.
1 Crit Rating = 0.0055779% Crit
179.28 Crit Rating = 1% Crit
Haste:
Haste is garbage. Avoid it at all costs. It is the crappiest secondary stat for Bears by a factor of 4. STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM IT IF IT ALL HUMANLY POSSIBLE.
128.05701 = 1% Haste
Dodge Rating:
Increases your chance to Dodge. At a pre-raid level of gearing this will be the stat you Reforge to. Reforge everything except Mastery to Dodge. Mastery is the second most valuable secondary stat behind Dodge, and since every piece of gear will come with 2 secondary stats, you pick whatever isn't Mastery.
1 Dodge Rating = 0.005687% Dodge
176.71899 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge
Hit Rating:
Increases the chance to hit your target. It also increases your White and Yellow crit caps. However that isn't something you have to worry about in a pre-raid environment. As Hit is only the 2nd least valuable secondary stat, reforge it into Dodge whenever possible. If you find yourself having threat problems, get more Expertise before you get more Hit.
Increases chance to hit.
120.109 Hit Rating = 1% Hit
1 Hit Rating = 0.0083256% Hit
8% Hit = 960.872 Hit Rating
Expertise Rating:
Expertise reduces the chance a mob will Parry or Dodge your attacks. Since Yellow attacks are on a "2-roll" system, it is actually more valuable for mitigation than Crit until you reach the Expertise "softcap" (6.5%). However since Expertise (specifically Expertise+Mastery) pieces are so rare, it isn't a stat you should be actively seeking out, let alone reforging/gemming for.
30.0727 Expertise Rating = 1 Expertise
Level 85 mob = 5.0% (Dodge) / 5.0% (Parry) = 601.454 (20) / 601.454 (20) Expertise Rating
Level 86 mob = 5.2% (Dodge) / 5.2% (Parry) = 631.527 (21) / 631.527 (21) Expertise Rating
Level 87 mob = 5.4% (Dodge) / 5.4% (Parry) = 661.599 (22) / 661.599 (22) Expertise Rating
Level 88 mob = 6.5% (Dodge) / 14% (Parry) = 781.890 (26) / 1684.071 (56) Expertise Rating
Mastery Rating:
Mastery increases the amount your Savage Defense bubbles absorb. This is great. You should be seeking it out on gear, and reforging whatever it comes with to Dodge.
179.28 Mastery Rating = 1 Mastery
Armor:
Armor decreases the amount of physical damage taken from attacks. It is directly tied to iLvL and quality of the item. You may see some items with a "green" value for their armor. If you see one of these, remember that the bonus portion of the armor does not get multiplied by the Bear armor modifier. The "regular" portion (which is directly tied to iLvL/quality) still does.
1 Armor = 3.2186 Armor (Bear + Thick Hide)
1 Armor = 3.282972 Armor (Bear + Thick Hide + Meta Gem)
Armor cap (75% DR) for Lvl88 Boss mobs = 97717.5 Armor
Your secondary stat priorities: Dodge > Mastery > Expertise(until softcap) > Crit > Hit = Expertise(after softcap) >>>>>>>>>> Haste.
This ends part 1.
I've put together a gear guide for a "pre-raid" bear using Fasc's spreadsheet. You may not choose to believe me, but I've tried pretty much every viable combination including gems. I do not however claim it is perfect, and there may have been something I have overlooked. If you think something doesn't fit please do not hesitate to contact me and let me know (see the right hand side for how).
I've split this into two parts. Part 1 will discuss the various stats, what they do, and their relative values. Part 2 will have the actual gear list. So here weeee goooooooo!
Stats:
Agility:
Agility is the "bread n butter" stat of any Feral Druid, be they Cat or Bear. It increases Attack Power (AP), Critical Strike Chance, and Dodge %. The amount of Agility is mostly tied to the iLvL (Item Level) and quality (Uncommon / Rare / Epic) of the gear. There can be some variation but there usually isn't much. At entry-level raiding Agility is an amazing stat because it has such a huge impact on Savage Defense uptime and effectiveness. You will find yourself mostly gemming Agility in your gear, unless the socket bonus warrants otherwise. Actual stats below:
1 Agi = 2.5 AP (2.625 AP) [2.8875 AP]
1 Agi = 0.0030783% Crit (0.0032323%)
324.85 Agi = 1% Crit
1 Agi = 0.0041054% Dodge (0.0043106%)
243.58 Agi = 1% Dodge
Strength:
Strength is now the bastard step-sibling of Agility for a Feral Druid. It grants Attack Power but nothing else. In the past it actually granted more AP per point than Agility, but no longer. You will only find it on cross-class tanking accessories. However those accessories are generally sub-par when compared to an Agility-based accessory of the same level due to how awesome Agility is. For the most part avoid it like the plague unless the secondary stats on the item warrant it.
1 Str = 2.5 AP (2.625 AP) [2.8875 AP]
Stamina:
Stamina increases your health. It also has a side-effect of increasing the amount of Attack Power granted via Vengeance. So in a roundabout way it is a mitigation stat. However it is not as effective as actual mitigation stats like Mastery. Stamina is directly linked to the iLvL and quality of the item.
1 Sta = 17.1402 Health (17.99721)
Critical Strike Rating:
Critical Strike Rating increases the chance that you will critically hit an enemy. This makes it a valuable threat and mitigation stat for Bears as crits proc Savage Defense. It is generally the second most important secondary mitigation stat behind Mastery.
1 Crit Rating = 0.0055779% Crit
179.28 Crit Rating = 1% Crit
Haste:
Haste is garbage. Avoid it at all costs. It is the crappiest secondary stat for Bears by a factor of 4. STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM IT IF IT ALL HUMANLY POSSIBLE.
128.05701 = 1% Haste
Dodge Rating:
Increases your chance to Dodge. At a pre-raid level of gearing this will be the stat you Reforge to. Reforge everything except Mastery to Dodge. Mastery is the second most valuable secondary stat behind Dodge, and since every piece of gear will come with 2 secondary stats, you pick whatever isn't Mastery.
1 Dodge Rating = 0.005687% Dodge
176.71899 Dodge Rating = 1% Dodge
Hit Rating:
Increases the chance to hit your target. It also increases your White and Yellow crit caps. However that isn't something you have to worry about in a pre-raid environment. As Hit is only the 2nd least valuable secondary stat, reforge it into Dodge whenever possible. If you find yourself having threat problems, get more Expertise before you get more Hit.
Increases chance to hit.
120.109 Hit Rating = 1% Hit
1 Hit Rating = 0.0083256% Hit
8% Hit = 960.872 Hit Rating
Expertise Rating:
Expertise reduces the chance a mob will Parry or Dodge your attacks. Since Yellow attacks are on a "2-roll" system, it is actually more valuable for mitigation than Crit until you reach the Expertise "softcap" (6.5%). However since Expertise (specifically Expertise+Mastery) pieces are so rare, it isn't a stat you should be actively seeking out, let alone reforging/gemming for.
30.0727 Expertise Rating = 1 Expertise
Level 85 mob = 5.0% (Dodge) / 5.0% (Parry) = 601.454 (20) / 601.454 (20) Expertise Rating
Level 86 mob = 5.2% (Dodge) / 5.2% (Parry) = 631.527 (21) / 631.527 (21) Expertise Rating
Level 87 mob = 5.4% (Dodge) / 5.4% (Parry) = 661.599 (22) / 661.599 (22) Expertise Rating
Level 88 mob = 6.5% (Dodge) / 14% (Parry) = 781.890 (26) / 1684.071 (56) Expertise Rating
Mastery Rating:
Mastery increases the amount your Savage Defense bubbles absorb. This is great. You should be seeking it out on gear, and reforging whatever it comes with to Dodge.
179.28 Mastery Rating = 1 Mastery
Armor:
Armor decreases the amount of physical damage taken from attacks. It is directly tied to iLvL and quality of the item. You may see some items with a "green" value for their armor. If you see one of these, remember that the bonus portion of the armor does not get multiplied by the Bear armor modifier. The "regular" portion (which is directly tied to iLvL/quality) still does.
1 Armor = 3.2186 Armor (Bear + Thick Hide)
1 Armor = 3.282972 Armor (Bear + Thick Hide + Meta Gem)
Armor cap (75% DR) for Lvl88 Boss mobs = 97717.5 Armor
Your secondary stat priorities: Dodge > Mastery > Expertise(until softcap) > Crit > Hit = Expertise(after softcap) >>>>>>>>>> Haste.
This ends part 1.
11/30/10
So I've been really wrapped up with this whole "Swipe is now useless" problem which is currently plaguing Bear tanks. I've done a lot of math on the problem (which has been linked everywhere from Ri to MMO Champion - go me!), and apparently people just don't understand how Base Damage + AP Coeff abilities work. It's very frustrating.
Regardless, I should be updating this more often.
Anyways, latest info in the Bear world.
1) Swipe iz broke.
As previously mentioned, Swipe is broken. It doesn't do what its supposed to do. Worse than that, it does less damage (at least according to current info) than Thrash. This means that once you hit 81, you take Swipe off of your actionbar. Period.
WTF?!?!
Granted I won't know for sure what will be happening until I hit 85 myself, but that just sounds absurdly dumb. More info will follow after Dec 7.
Additionally the tooltip for Swipe doesn't account for the recent 17% nerf. So if you're attacking an unarmored target and wondering why the numbers don't match, multiply your TT damage by 0.83 to get the actual damage. The TT also includes any damage modifiers to Swipe (2pct10), so don't remove things that shouldn't be.
2) Fasc made a spreadsheet!
Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1083360391
This is Fasc's Bear Mitigation spreadsheet. It breaks down the various stats into different weights to give you an idea of what stats are valuable, and what aren't. As expected Haste has the lowest value of all (by a factor of 4 - lol). So if you find Haste, change it to Dodge ASAP.
In that thread I asked him about the possibility of making a "Bearpoints" mod. If you have (or still do) tank as a Plate tank, you'll know of a mod called "Tankpoints" which breaks down the various stats on an item to tell you how valuable it is with a common value. It'd be pretty cool if Bears finally got something similar.
3) Ri made a levelling guide to 85
Ri (Reesi, @Reesify on Twitter) made a levelling guide from 80-85. I'm a big fan of her work, it's all really good stuff. Go check it out.
Additionally we're trading back and forth on a pre-raid gear guide. I'll hopefully have my selected choices up this weekend. Maybe. We'll see.
If you're interested in following her stuff, go to http://www.theincbear.com - I definitely recommend you check it out.
4) Thick Hide iz broke.
It's granting far more bonus armor than it should be. Don't know why it hasn't been fixed yet, but it sure is amusing.
5) I'm going to be making a Bear damage / coeff spreadsheet from 10-85.
That's right. I'm gonna be doing a spreadsheet.
To be fair I will likely only do this once. I don't fancy re-levelling a Druid every time Blizzard introduces some changes to Bear abilities. That said it is definitely something I'm interested in doing, if only to give myself a better understanding of how the abilities all work. I'm scared I might find out things that I don't really want to know.
That's all for now. Hope to do another post this weekend.
Regardless, I should be updating this more often.
Anyways, latest info in the Bear world.
1) Swipe iz broke.
As previously mentioned, Swipe is broken. It doesn't do what its supposed to do. Worse than that, it does less damage (at least according to current info) than Thrash. This means that once you hit 81, you take Swipe off of your actionbar. Period.
WTF?!?!
Granted I won't know for sure what will be happening until I hit 85 myself, but that just sounds absurdly dumb. More info will follow after Dec 7.
Additionally the tooltip for Swipe doesn't account for the recent 17% nerf. So if you're attacking an unarmored target and wondering why the numbers don't match, multiply your TT damage by 0.83 to get the actual damage. The TT also includes any damage modifiers to Swipe (2pct10), so don't remove things that shouldn't be.
2) Fasc made a spreadsheet!
Link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1083360391
This is Fasc's Bear Mitigation spreadsheet. It breaks down the various stats into different weights to give you an idea of what stats are valuable, and what aren't. As expected Haste has the lowest value of all (by a factor of 4 - lol). So if you find Haste, change it to Dodge ASAP.
In that thread I asked him about the possibility of making a "Bearpoints" mod. If you have (or still do) tank as a Plate tank, you'll know of a mod called "Tankpoints" which breaks down the various stats on an item to tell you how valuable it is with a common value. It'd be pretty cool if Bears finally got something similar.
3) Ri made a levelling guide to 85
Ri (Reesi, @Reesify on Twitter) made a levelling guide from 80-85. I'm a big fan of her work, it's all really good stuff. Go check it out.
Additionally we're trading back and forth on a pre-raid gear guide. I'll hopefully have my selected choices up this weekend. Maybe. We'll see.
If you're interested in following her stuff, go to http://www.theincbear.com - I definitely recommend you check it out.
4) Thick Hide iz broke.
It's granting far more bonus armor than it should be. Don't know why it hasn't been fixed yet, but it sure is amusing.
5) I'm going to be making a Bear damage / coeff spreadsheet from 10-85.
That's right. I'm gonna be doing a spreadsheet.
To be fair I will likely only do this once. I don't fancy re-levelling a Druid every time Blizzard introduces some changes to Bear abilities. That said it is definitely something I'm interested in doing, if only to give myself a better understanding of how the abilities all work. I'm scared I might find out things that I don't really want to know.
That's all for now. Hope to do another post this weekend.
11/5/10
OMG MORE SKY FALLING QQQQ
Seriously guys, this is really getting old.
This week we had two epic batches of "QQQQQQQQQQQQ", and one justified concern from the Feral community. One of them was vaguely justified, however it was based on false and/or incomplete information. The other epic one was completely unjustified and makes me /facepalm. The third is definitely justified and just confuses the hell out of me why it would even happen.
Change #1: Abilities based off of weapon damage (like "% weapon damage") now scale. Everyone thought that the abilities were being uber nerfed. However within 10-15 minutes it was clarified to be scaling (like spells) from 1 - 85. I saw at least 6 Feral rage threads within 15 minutes when this showed up on MMO-Champion. All of them made me /facepalm
Change #2: Leader Of the Pack Self Heal changed from 8% heal to 4% heal. This is in line with other self-healing ability nerfs to DKs and Warriors. At most it hurts soloing. Oh noes. At the root of it it's a scaling issue with huge health pools. Self healing for 12k every 6 seconds is kind of an absurd proposition, even if your max health is 150k.
Change #3: Leader Of the Pack mana return reduced from 8% to 4%. This is ridiculous. This basically kills Feral PvP outright. Unless mana pools somehow double without increasing spell costs (which is impossible) this makes any sort of competitive Feral PvP impossible. I think this was either a typo, or an over zealous coder hitting both numbers without intending to. I fully expect it to be reversed.
That's your Feral changes for this week.
This week we had two epic batches of "QQQQQQQQQQQQ", and one justified concern from the Feral community. One of them was vaguely justified, however it was based on false and/or incomplete information. The other epic one was completely unjustified and makes me /facepalm. The third is definitely justified and just confuses the hell out of me why it would even happen.
Change #1: Abilities based off of weapon damage (like "% weapon damage") now scale. Everyone thought that the abilities were being uber nerfed. However within 10-15 minutes it was clarified to be scaling (like spells) from 1 - 85. I saw at least 6 Feral rage threads within 15 minutes when this showed up on MMO-Champion. All of them made me /facepalm
Change #2: Leader Of the Pack Self Heal changed from 8% heal to 4% heal. This is in line with other self-healing ability nerfs to DKs and Warriors. At most it hurts soloing. Oh noes. At the root of it it's a scaling issue with huge health pools. Self healing for 12k every 6 seconds is kind of an absurd proposition, even if your max health is 150k.
Change #3: Leader Of the Pack mana return reduced from 8% to 4%. This is ridiculous. This basically kills Feral PvP outright. Unless mana pools somehow double without increasing spell costs (which is impossible) this makes any sort of competitive Feral PvP impossible. I think this was either a typo, or an over zealous coder hitting both numbers without intending to. I fully expect it to be reversed.
That's your Feral changes for this week.
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